tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7458807337324426917.post392510335676296704..comments2014-03-09T15:45:08.752-07:00Comments on A Quaker Watering Hole: Taking Back JesusAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07488876505679035140noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7458807337324426917.post-21520343724398503862007-08-15T22:22:00.000-07:002007-08-15T22:22:00.000-07:00Amen, Martin!Amen, Martin!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07488876505679035140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7458807337324426917.post-54290026400689445052007-08-14T16:16:00.000-07:002007-08-14T16:16:00.000-07:00My current life circumstances have taken me out of...My current life circumstances have taken me out of the Quaker intellectual ghetto and closer to what we might call "the real world." One thing I've noticed is that Jesus hang-ups aren't nearly as prevalent as they are within the walls of man Quaker meetinghouses. It's not uncommon that someone will ask if I'm a Christian, then say "good" when I say "yes." <BR/><BR/>The world's people have plenty of misconceptions about Jesus but His name and His message is not nearly so toxic as we think. If we simply live Christian lives and respond with a simple "yes" when asked our allegiance, many many folks will understand: no need for church history, denominational details and extended exegesis about "well, what do you mean by 'Christian'?" <BR/><BR/>I suspect the hard work is not taking Jesus back in the world but rather is taking Jesus back into our hearts and following Him where He takes us. I don't believe that this journey need take us out of our Quaker identity but it will challenge us as the deepest level. Once we've done that we can share the good news about the real Jesus and start educating those in the larger Christian fellowship who the tempter has led astray.<BR/><BR/>Martin@ <A HREF="http://www.quakerranter.org" REL="nofollow">Quaker Ranter</A>Martin Kelleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06999620933648327663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7458807337324426917.post-53852871552441791462007-08-13T23:25:00.000-07:002007-08-13T23:25:00.000-07:00About the abortion issue...that's a tough one. I ...About the abortion issue...that's a tough one. I agree with Bill Samuel that Jesus doesn't fit either the left- or right-wing agenda, and I agree with him that I don't think abortion is the best plan. After having a baby recently, having an ultrasound at 11 weeks and seeing my little boy waving his arms and legs around vigorously and seeing his brain, it's hard to imagine it being OK to just end that life for my own convenience. (And it's different from eating chicken eggs, because usually the eggs we eat are not fertilized. I'm a vegetarian but I don't have a problem with eating unfertilized eggs as long as the chickens who produced them were treated well.)<BR/><BR/>But I agree with Forrest that there's a lot more that goes into this issue--if we aren't prepared as a society to take care of the children who currently are being aborted, we have no business saying those babies should be born. If we aren't willing to provide birth control free or really cheap to those who can't afford it we can't blame them for having abortions. If we can't do anything about unequal balances of power between the sexes so that women are forced to have unprotected sex, we have no business telling women to give up the only "birth control" available to them. But when possible, I think abortion shouldn't be used as a cover-up for irresponsibility.<BR/><BR/>In the best of all worlds, abortions wouldn't be necessary...but as it is, what alternatives are there? We have an overpopulation problem as it is! Is it better to never live than to live and not experience love as a child?<BR/><BR/>So there's my 2 cents (or a little more...)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07488876505679035140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7458807337324426917.post-6296547434407227552007-08-13T23:14:00.000-07:002007-08-13T23:14:00.000-07:00I really appreciate this message, and am encourage...I really appreciate this message, and am encouraged by it. It's unfortunate that Jesus' name and person has been so denigrated by those who claim him but don't live as he did, that those who try to live as he did are embarrassed to use his name! But I think it's important for those of us who are truly trying to live a Christ-like life to claim him in order to restore the true meaning to his name, so that those who hear his name and the name "Christian" in the future have a different and better view of what it means.<BR/><BR/>I especially appreciated the part about people saying that if Pixley really believed, he'd be healed so he would no longer be handicapped. I appreciate his way of explaining that this assumes he's not whole and the person God wants him to be right now, and explains the judgementalism that suggests that suggests he's not right with God but they are, since they're able-bodied.<BR/><BR/>Jesus loved those who were broken and not whole by the standards of the world, and called us to do the same. But generally we (myself included, unfortunately) just ignore them or try to "heal" them. Jesus truly saw them as humans, saw their needs, and addressed those needs. I'm sure he would love this "gay, disabled body" and would be proud to have his picture on the bib of his overalls.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for sharing this, Forrest!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07488876505679035140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7458807337324426917.post-5053633508386602902007-08-11T10:27:00.000-07:002007-08-11T10:27:00.000-07:00Okay, now we've got our can of worms well-opened. ...Okay, now we've got our can of worms well-opened. Save the unborn chickens! <BR/><BR/>Sorry, I'll have mine over easy. Maybe not from one of those chicken Aushwitzes where they cut off beaks to keep critters from pecking each other raw in the crush--but it has to come down to how we treat fellow creatures while they're here.<BR/><BR/>An egg, a million sperm (flush!)--and if they meet, a zygote... but we're still talking potentials here. Where's the soul of it?--Who's in there? It's a sacred potential, sure enough, not to be casually thrown away, but a cluster of cells is not a human being. We can argue about when we should start calling it human, but the only absolute line is that attributed to GW: "The Right to Life begins at conception and ends at birth." And God has not yet revealed that to me!<BR/><BR/>If we're not trusting the woman who's going to be faced with the pain, risk, and responsibility for making this a person, we end up trusting the State to indirectly kill large numbers of women in the course of saving these zygotes which we would certainly neglect and brutalize if they ever did arrive in this world where, in current conditions, there is already insufficient food to nourish those already here. [It used to be a distribution problem; it's now one of farming technique and the politics of economic systems and land-use.]<BR/><BR/>Jesus didn't say a whole lot either about sex or about when the soul enters the body. So who's stretching his teaching, here?forresthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03214745625847174676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7458807337324426917.post-1709583763840712092007-08-11T08:48:00.000-07:002007-08-11T08:48:00.000-07:00Well "Taking Back Jesus" can really mean trying to...Well "Taking Back Jesus" can really mean trying to make Jesus over in our own ideological image. A careful reading of Jesus may blow that away.<BR/><BR/>Because Jesus doesn't really fit the right-wing stereotype doesn't mean he really fits a left-wing stereotype. At the time, people had trouble figuring Him out because he didn't fit the usual boxes. We still have that trouble today.<BR/><BR/>Didn't Jesus stand for the poor, the disadvantaged, those who couldn't speak for themselves readily in society? How could this not include the unborn?<BR/><BR/>It really seems strange to have a handicapped man arguing for a "right" to abortion. It's often used to kill any unborn child who doesn't meet our definition of "perfect" - they have some "defects" as Hitler would say. Do you really believe that Jesus would favor that? I can't see that.<BR/><BR/>In the off chance that someone might want to read more of my reflections, I offer this Spiritual Nurture Program (a program of the School of the Spirit, a Quaker Ministry of Prayer and Learning) paper on <A HREF="http://www.seamless-garment.org/discabor1.shtml" REL="nofollow">Reflections on Personal Discernment: The Abortion Issue</A>.Bill Samuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00752443575410023776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7458807337324426917.post-10775607984760115952007-08-11T06:16:00.000-07:002007-08-11T06:16:00.000-07:00I'm a newly convinced Quaker (this year). Is ther...I'm a newly convinced Quaker (this year). Is there any interest or plans to take this to the internet? Have a "taking back Jesus" interest group or weekly chat room or some such? I'd be happy to help with that. bluegalsblog AT gmail DOT comFran / Blue Galhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18293627981248346055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7458807337324426917.post-79200515147912687252007-08-08T22:04:00.000-07:002007-08-08T22:04:00.000-07:00Forrest: Thanks for your report. I posted John's p...Forrest: Thanks for your report. I posted John's piece to my blog tonight before reading yours -- sorry!<BR/><BR/>It was good to talk to you and Anne at Yearly Meeting.<BR/><BR/>-- Chris MohrChris M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05125825966802002625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7458807337324426917.post-32067152182004523382007-08-06T08:15:00.000-07:002007-08-06T08:15:00.000-07:00I think most of us with gifts differing have had s...I think most of us with gifts differing have had some well meaning soul try to heal us and then blame OUR lack of faith for the non-miracle. The mainstream Christian equivalent is to theologize: I knew one fellow with MD who was told by a pastor his disability was helping pay for the sins of humanity.<BR/><BR/>As I was writing this my wife called me over to the television -- the women on a talk show called The View were playing with Jesus Action figures, and a Mary doll, with a pull string that recited the Magnificat. <BR/><BR/>We are called to test the spirits for not every spirit is of God. And recall that Jesus' work was not done until his body was broken.nathan's shepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17333649679313721590noreply@blogger.com